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1:11:59was very struck too you know thinking about both shman and Fuko we have people who died of
1:12:06AIDS and who were sort of acutely aware of this let's just say undercurrent with
1:12:12respect to established Authority and government um oh yes you know in terms of practices and activities and so forth
1:12:20um okay very interesting very interesting yeah um
1:12:26so I I I am let me see I I I hope I don't want to go too far a field we
1:12:31don't have that much time and um I I I I've said that I I enjoyed very
1:12:37much what you said about Sherman and I won't go go into that um I just wanted to pick up quickly in
1:12:44Fuko something um and that was your way of developing an anarch anarchist
1:12:51potential um from his thinking about uh uh the relation to paria and and the
1:12:58care of the um in the in the later work and and particularly in the text the courage of Truth and I was really um
1:13:04frustrated because I promised myself to get to that material at some point many years ago 35 years ago when I first
1:13:11started reading um those late lectures and I recognized that fukko was drawing
1:13:17heavily upon again drawing heavily upon a motif in heiger which is is the motif
1:13:23of usage of use um okay it is of course you know he's referring to a set of
1:13:29Greek texts but as a as a reader as strong as as strong of heiger as strong
1:13:35as Fuko was um cannot not have been aware of what of course yeah the notion
1:13:42of usage and this is um I think that
1:13:47this topic um could potentially open to a more horizontal horizontal
1:13:55understanding understanding of power relations than um than one would normally expect from haiger for example
1:14:01and uh but for this one really does have to read through the text as a whole I
1:14:06remember in my one conversation with Sherman it was very precious to me um we discussed our relations with being in
1:14:12time and I said I don't agree with you you don't read uh uh back to front you read front to back in other words you start with being in time and then you go
1:14:19from there and he said no no you start from the end and you go back and you deconstruct and um uh but uh what I was
1:14:26trying to talk about there was um so about the question of mids
1:14:31sign and relationality and and the pragmatics of relation which I think are so important in the existential analytic
1:14:38and which get carried through heiger uh text from beginning to end um so this
1:14:44notion of usage for heiger it is it appears early in in in his thinking about pragmatics but it really comes to
1:14:51the fourth comes to the four in the 30s when he's read when starting from the reading of holin who who really
1:14:57introduces this this thought I think in a powerful way but then it starts to come forward very strongly in 1935 Iger
1:15:04the introduction to metaphysics he makes a very strong statement being needs human being in order to come about but
1:15:11can be no event without the relation between being and human being and he says being needs and uses human being
1:15:17that's and the the the verb there is is is yes yeah it comes up uh uh very
1:15:26significantly in all of the texts um again through the through the 30s into
1:15:31the 40s you have something like the anaximander fragment into the 50s something like the question concerning
1:15:37technology and then the language essays all the way to his very last essay he's talking about usage and um it's always a
1:15:45it's it's it's a destabilizing relation um in that the you might think the the
1:15:51the the ontologically prior um is always needing the what is you know dependent
1:15:59upon it or or is that what it uses so in in Fuko and in in the passages you were
1:16:05citing it tends to be a relation of of the self to itself which opens upon
1:16:11alterity in heiger it is um it is the usage defines relation in general all
1:16:19relation and all relation is thereby destabilized um so I think that this is why I say that you could perhaps find an
1:16:27uh possibility in in in working with that
1:16:32um can I I go ahead I this is so interesting thank you so much because I
1:16:39never relate it because you know what is interesting is that prudon in what is property says that um we should defend
1:16:48usage against property and Anarchist thinking you have a very strong concept
1:16:55of usage as precisely what opens relations so that we could draw